From:John Yushkevich e-mail:Joseph.Preli.farm@gmail.com
Subject:RE: RE: Doug's stuck exhaust valve and engine oil Date:Thu Apr 6 07:41:28 2023
Response to:7891
Fascinating about the two cycle oil.

I would love to hear more data.



On the subject of stuck valves (beating a dead horse) you all need to keep in
mind that these engines have OPEN valve trains. They are not just exposed to
carbon, fuel inadequacies and tolerance interference but also road dirt and
surface rust and for those that may not have their Henderson in museum spec.
Climate controlled environments and ones like us in the Northeast know all too
well those damp rainy days where every engine is dripping wet.

I have a 6hp hit and miss engine that I cut 6 cord of wood with every season so
it is not babied and has considerable hours on it yet at the beginning of every
season I need to spray down the atmospheric intake valve with WD-40 to free it
up.



----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----

Gene, my Deluxe would stick valves when riding in hot weather. The engine

would slowly start to lose power then start to skip as the valve started to stick



in the guide and eventually stall. I originally thought the piston may have been

seizing but discovered it was actually the valve train. The solution was an off

road octane booster containing tetraethyl lead. Completed 2010 Cball on the

bike with no further issues.











----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----



OK here comes a bomb, which will probably start thIe endless oil debate!







Doug, regarding your stuck valve: I would guess one of two things happened.







1. The fit between guide and stem was simply too tight. Running a bit lean (hot)

could have easily stuck it.







2. Burning oil builds up carbon deposits on the stem and sticks the valve open.







So, what clearance was used when fitting valve and stem? Depending on guide

material, I prefer fitting them about .004-.0045". This is on twins, I've not built

or run a 4 but they should be similar I would think.







However, my experience (again with twins only) has shown that burning oil is

often the culprit. In addition, burning oil causes carbon buildup in the cylinder,

hence the need to remove the cylinders (or heads) and de-carbon, every

season, as the owners manual suggests! What a pain!!! I have had endless

debates with George Yarocki and many others about using, or not using oil

control rings in total loss motors. Granted, the Henderson is not a total loss

system, but other than that, it's basically the same, a hot running air cooled

engine. Georges argument was that "these engines are designed to burn oil

because that's the only way the top end gets lubricated". I disagree, if burning

oil was such a good thing, then why do engine designers today go to such great

lengths to keep oil out of the combustion chamber?!!! Because burning oil

leaves carbon deposits on the pistons, heads, valves and rings and eventually

can break off and cause severe damage as well as stick valves open due to

carbon build up on the stem. That's why I'm a firm believer in installing oil

control rings on these old bikes. THEN, I've always added a bit of 2 stroke oil to

the gas as bit of a lube for the intake valve at least. I was told by a chemist

that Marvel Mystery oil when added to the gas will drastically decrease octane

and cause a very hot burn. I've seen this damage first hand, so I would not

recommend Marvel oil in the gas.







OK, so what oil to use? My good friend Hans Coertse from So Africa is an

amazing engineer, restorer and vintage rider. He has successfully competed in

3 Cannonball rides and 15 plus So. African DJ runs and more, all on pre 1930

machines. I saw a JD Harley that he pulled down after 10,000 miles. There was

absolutely no carbon on the pistons, AT ALL ! No nicotine stains under the

rings, no sign that the engine had been run for more than just a few minutes! He

said there was a light dust on top of the piston which he simply blew off. I was

amazed and inquired about what oil he was running. His answer shocked me!

He runs Castrol full synthetic 2 stroke oil, straight in the crankcase on all of his

vintage bikes, and has been doing this for many years! His thinking was that if

this stuff, diluted 50/1 with gasoline will work on a 2 stroke engine at 10,000

RPM, why will it not work on these old tractor engines? Any full synthetic 2

stroke oil would work, but he has always used Castrol. This oil is designed to

burn, and burn clean, which it does! It pours out like water and has no viscosity

rating at all, thus it's counter intuitive to even think about using it, as we've all

been trained to think that these old machines need heavy oil because they run

so hot! Hans' theory on the old bikes is this: Regardless of how well these

things are built, and even with oil control rings, they will burn some oil, a little at

least. So any oil that does get burned will burn clean and leave no carbon

deposits, and our recent experience has proven that, again.







So, I was skeptical, but Hans and I just completed a 3500 mile cross country

ride on our early 20's Excelsior's. More info here if you want to read a lot of

stuff about our ride:



https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/bboard/forum/general-amca-

forum/parking-lot-chatter/301197-the-lindbergh-ride-2022







We both used this oil, straight in the crankcase plus 1 oz / gallon in the gasoline.

Our engines were built almost identically. We both used HD EL pistons with

single piece cast iron oil control rings. The only difference is I had Nikasil bore

linings in my cylinders and bronze guide liners both intake and exhaust, where

Hans was running the original cast iron bores and guides. We had absolutely 0

engine troubles. Plugs were checked every night and showed no signs of

carbon deposits, just a dull grey haze. Oil consumption was amazingly low! I

never saw any smoke from my exhaust, or Hans' either. Our longest day was

about 300 miles and I used just over 1/2 quart of oil total, and most of that I

dumped out and recycled in the waste bucket. We drained the crankcase at

every gas stop and reset the level. I was consistently removing about 2 oz of oil

into the waste can. Hans used a bit more oil than I did and I attribute that to the

Nikasil bore lining on my bike. The 3rd rider in our group was using 50W Harley

oil and used 1 quart or more per day, but to be fair his mechanical pump was not

working so he was forced to rely solely on the hand pump and may have been

over oiling a bit. On occasion, his bike would puff some smoke but that could

have been due to some leaks as well.







When I returned home, I did a lot of clean up on the X and fixed a transmission

leak, new tire and chains and generally went over everything. I put a lighted

scope into both cylinders for a peek. I was amazed, NO CARBON at all! Just a

dull gray haze on the piston dome, exhaust valve head and plugs. No cylinder

wall scoring at all, looked virtually new in there! So, I'm sold on this stuff!







For comparison, my 24 Chief hauled my wife and I plus the giant Princess

sidecar on the 2018 Cannonball, running original cast iron bores and late model

Indian pistons with oil control rings. We used conventional oil, Brad Penn 50 W.

Oil consumption was about 1 qt per 250 miles, but a peek inside shows some

carbon deposits forming on the piston, cylinder head and valve heads.







I'm also of the belief that a thinner oil is good for these old motors anyway. Plus

a full synthetic 2 stroke oil is a great thing, as it burns clean and is still very

good lubricant. I've experienced a huge difference when running a 40 W oil in

my 39 HD sidecar rig. It has noticeably more power and the oil seems to run

cleaner. I don't see that the engine runs any hotter either.







If I had a 4 cylinder running, I would give the full synthetic a try, but that's me. I

would think it would be even better than in a twin, as there is a gallon of the

stuff sloshing around in there as opposed to only a few ounces in a total loss

twin.







Anyone care to give it a try? I'm ready to hear your replies.......



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