From:Steve Ciccalone
E-Mail:<hensteveamc@aol.com>
Subject:RE: RE: 1920 Model K horn mounting bracket
Response to:1111
Date:Fri Jan 6 09:38:42 2006
Hello Steve,

I looked through my literature and offer the following on
the horn bracket question for K.  The '20 catalog reflects a
horn position that mirrors what appears on '20/'21/'22 Aces
except that it is on the left side rather than the right. 
Doug Strange and I have tried to conclude what this actually
looks like.  It does clamp around the down tube but it
almost has to be straight accross.  The later Aces more
clearly show a bracket that clamps lower on the tube and
comes up on a 90 degree turn.  These later brackets have
been reproduced.  Recalling that the '20 catalog was printed
in 1919, the design still reflects what Henderson was doing
before he left Schwinn.  So whatever the drawing shows is
early in the game.  The 1918-23 parts catalog reflects the
X-K #s which would be the same as Excelsior.  I can't say
for sure but the X style switch is probably the "telegragh
style" that would have been strapped to the bar instead of
screwed to the twist grip ala Deluxe.

We recognize that as the K got into production, Schwinn's
engineers were making a number of changes to "de-Henderson"
the bike.  Also, recognizing that the '20's series Big X
appeared in 1920 as well and had many standardized parts to
the Henderson, the horn bracket as originally depicted may
have been relocated to the handlebar.  Perhaps someone could
check a 1920 20 Series catalog.  If you are looking at
original photos of a K that shows the handlebar mount, I
wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as the anomoly and trust
the catalog or the parts book for that matter.  I have a
very good original photograph of a '21 K with the handlebar
mount for the horn.  The 18-23 parts book does not seem to
show the change for the Deluxe bracket and it does not
change until the first all Deluxe book.  Therefore, I would
tend to lean toward this being one of those transitional
parts that we all scratch our heads about.  I think the key
here is to look at the 20 series X along with the Henderson.
As far as I can tell, there was no '21 Henderson catalog
issued, probably because they were already leaning toward
the new Deluxe.  I would say if you use the handlebar mount,
no one should take you to the wood shed for it.

----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----
Hi guys. Thanks to Perry and Nick who both emailed me direct
ith help on this one. For the benefit of any one else
interested, here's an update

There has been some speculation that the model K horn should
e on the handlebar. This is backed up by the photo
currently on ebay #4600254814 which shows a narrow frame
(though they were used on early Deluxe production too so
might not be a K) and Nick has a photo of some new 1920 K's
that had recently been delivered to the Maine State Police.
All show the horns fitted on the handlebars. Both Perry and
I agree that this is not right for the Model K. I know that
many police orders had a number of changes - twistgrip
clutch for instance - which were 'special order' mods. I
know that over the years the horn migrated to the cross bar
on the handlebars and then onto the top of the front
mudguard. But all my paperwork (and some from Perry)on the
Model K (newspaper ads, factory advertising for 20 and 21,
advertising book and owners handbook) all show the horn
mounted under the left hand side of the tank just in front
of the dynamo.
Some extracts from my 1920 parts list (unfortunately text
only)
X-K-7066    Horn complete
X-K-4666    Horn bracket, large
X-K-4667    Horn bracket clamp
XK-2785    Horn bracket clamp screw 10-24x1/2"
301   Horn bracket clamp screw lock washer
  and deluxe list (with pics)
K-7066    Horn complete
K-4666    Horn bracket
K-4667    Horn bracket clamp
XK-2785   Horn bracket clamp screw
XK-3610   Horn bracket clamp nut
301-W   Horn bracket clamp screw lock washer

So the numbers are similar, very similar in fact but I do
know that some revised parts kept the exactly the same part
numbers (check out the numbers used for the various pistons
in the Deluxe parts book!) so that's not entirely
conclusive. The numbers for the screw and lock washer imply
that they were the same. But it's interesting that the K
list doesn't include a nut - was the clamp itself tapped to
take the screws? If the bracket for the K does fix the horn
to the horizontal frame tube then a bracket pressed out of a
lat plate would need to have a 90 degree twist in it
somewhere I guess. Or did the bracket wrap around the
circular body of the horn rather than the more common method
f using the screws holding the horn itself together? Maybe
this was considered difficult/over complicated/expensive (?)
ompared to the handlebar one shown in the Deluxe book.
Maybe the horn suffered from the heat generated by the
engine so they had to move it? Another thing I've noticed is
hat the model K pictures do not show the thumb operated
horn/cutout switches as used on the Deluxe. Certainly the
handlebars which came with my 1920 K didn't have any
provision for them. The owner's handbook shows that the
magneto cutout is on the end of the magneto itself so that
solves that one but I haven't seen any reference to the horn
witch.  Deluxe switch is part number K-427 (good cross
sectional drawing in Richard Shultz's book) whereas the
Model K lists the horn switch as X-K-1893-A. Totally
different numbers so, to me, that implies that the switches
must be different.  The 1919 list gives the number H-7099
for the horn switch assembly so whatever the model K switch
was, it would appear to be fairly short lived. Where was it
located? what did it look like? As always, lots of questions
o if anyone has any answers I would be very grateful
Thanks in advance
Steve


----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----
Hi guys - happy and prosperous new year to you all. Can
anyone help with a picture and/or drawing and/or dimensions
for the horn mounting bracket on the 1920 Model K please?
The period literature shows it mounted underneath the left
hand side of the tank. Looks too far back to be clamped to
the frame down tube so I am assuming it clamps to the
horizontal frame tube under the tank. Then again I might be
totally wrong. Any help much appreciated. Thanks guys -
Steve